The Story of Jonathan Wise: A Journey From Silence to Light

Hope for Wandering Amish introduced Jonathan Wise and invited listeners into a testimony centered on abuse, redemption, and the healing work of God. Jonathan began by saying that every person has a story, and that God can redeem those stories for His kingdom. He reflected on the simple joy of his young son sitting on his lap, contrasting it with the distance and shame he felt toward his own father as a boy.

Jonathan then described the early roots of his pain. After the traumatic death of his six-year-old brother in a farm accident, he became quiet and isolated. Not long afterward, a hired man he admired began sexually abusing him, and the abuse continued for about three years. Jonathan carried the shame in silence for eighteen years, while the effects spread into sexual bondage, confusion, distorted thinking, control, harshness toward others, and broken relationships within his family and marriage.

As a young adult, Jonathan pursued success, wealth, and influence, believing he had to prove himself and stay in control. He looked up to powerful men, overworked his brothers, neglected his wife, and treated people around him as tools to accomplish his goals. Later, when a hired man confessed sexual immorality to him in 2021, Jonathan first thought he was going to help someone else, but soon realized he himself needed help. That became the turning point that led him to confession, support from friends, and the beginning of freedom.

As healing began, Jonathan also came to understand that his sexual abuse story needed to come into the light. He told his wife, then his uncle, and later sought church support. One minister was initially supportive, but the wider church response became painful and deeply disappointing. Instead of receiving full care, Jonathan lost communion privileges, endured a family meeting where church leaders publicly condemned him, and experienced a severe breakdown of trust with the leadership in his community.

Only four weeks after that painful meeting, Jonathan and his family faced another crushing sorrow when their thirteen-month-old daughter died suddenly from spinal meningitis. In the middle of funeral planning and grief, the same church leaders who had wounded him appeared again, creating confusion and a deep sense of betrayal. Eventually, Jonathan and his family moved to a smaller church fellowship where they were given space, acceptance, and room to heal, and he said that season played an important role in rebuilding trust and learning healthier relationships.

In the discussion afterward, Jonathan clarified that the abuse was ongoing from ages nine to twelve, not a one-time event. He also explained that forgiving and trusting are not the same. Forgiveness means releasing revenge, while trust is rebuilt slowly over time. He shared that he is now involved in a restoration process with third-party counseling and is gradually working through some of the hurts face-to-face.

Other brothers on the call encouraged listeners not to stay silent about hidden sin, shame, or abuse. They emphasized that bringing things into the light is where healing begins, that there is usually at least one safe person to tell, and that people who walk with wounded individuals should respond with patience, compassion, and love rather than shock. Several speakers stressed that the response of a community can deepen wounds or become part of God’s healing, and they urged believers to be safe friends who listen well.

The conversation closed with a strong theme of redemption. Jonathan and the others repeatedly testified that God can bring healing even through very broken stories, though the process often takes years. The final call was for listeners to seek help, walk in the light, forgive without confusing forgiveness with forgetting, and trust Christ to work through caring people, honest confession, and faithful love.

Well, thank you for joining us today. We're excited to have you. And I wanted to just give a small introduction to what Hope for Wandering Amish is. We meet every first Saturday morning of every month at six o'clock a.m. And the goal of Hope for Wandering Amish is basically to share some small tidbits of truth and hopefully help anyone listening in on their journey with seeking Christ and their love-faith relationship with him.

So Jonathan Weiss is joining us this morning. He's a good friend of mine now. We met, I think, at Kingdom Fellowship weekend in 2024. And that's been a good time of getting to know each other the few times that we've met and visited. He will be sharing this morning on his journey through abuse and just redemption and the forgiveness that he's been on since then. He lives in Pennsylvania with his wife and children. So, yeah, we're excited to hear what he has to share.

Before we begin, let's pray. Father, we come to you this morning. We thank you for your redemption and for the forgiveness that you have extended to us as we have come to you. And we just thank you for the gift of salvation that was brought to us through the blood of Christ. And this morning, we just pray that you would bless Jonathan as he shares and also as this message goes out. And for those who are listening, we just pray that it would bless many lives. We thank you for the group of people here and we just thank you for Jonathan and also for his testimony. We pray it in Jesus' name. Amen.

Okay, Jonathan, the time is yours.

Well, thank you, Levi. Thank you for the introduction and thank you for the prayer. It is, yeah, it's good to be here. And yet, you know, I find myself asking, why do I have to tell my story again? And I thought about that. What is it? What is it about a story? Why am I asked to tell my story? Something that came to my mind was everybody has a story and that's what God wants to redeem and use as a testimony for his kingdom.

Last evening, I was thinking about preparing for this and we were having family devotions. My nine-year-old son came and wanted to sit on my lap. Now, he's nine and a half and he's not as big as me yet, but he's big. But I let him. I let him sit on my lap. And as he was, then we finished devotions like that. But I was thinking, you know, when I was his age, I just would not have wanted to do that because I felt too dirty and too far away from my dad to be even comfortable to sit that close to him. So to experience that last evening, it just brought a deep sense of gratitude, I believe, of what God has done for me and the people that cared enough to listen to my story and help me understand and work through it.

So again, having said that, I would like to say again that everybody has a story. Even you do, if you find yourself listening to this. So I'm going to start in. I'd like to give a picture of my married life in its dysfunction. About 25 to 29 years old, I thought I had everything. I was a good church member. I had a family. I was pursuing material wealth. I had my eyes on money and lots of accumulation. Like, that's what I want. That's what I thought I wanted. I was driving for more, just more all the time. And those around me became kind of my slaves.

And my brothers, those ended up being my brothers because I was the oldest in the family. My wife spent many weeks in the summer basically alone. I would show up for bed at midnight and leave again before the sun was up, and I just really worked because I needed to get lots of stuff done, and I had ideals. I actually had someone in my life that I was looking up to as an image, and he was a big farmer, and I wanted that. I wanted that image of a big farmer that covers a lot of ground and has a lot of influence, but that all came crashing down later. But anyway, that's kind of a little picture of the dysfunction in my midlife.

I'd like to back up now and just start at the beginning. I live in Perry County, grew up in Blaine, spent my childhood on a farm. And my childhood dream as a young boy was to run a combine. So my hobbies today are fishing, making hay, and listening to other people's stories. That's one of my favorite things that I like to do. So when I was young, when I was from 8 to 12 is kind of where my story takes a shift.

When I was eight and a half years old, there were four boys in our family, ages 6, 4, and 2, and we were a happy crew, from what I can remember. My six-year-old brother and I did everything together. Then when I was eight and a half, it was in the summer. There was a tragic accident, and I was working at feeding the cows, and I was running the skid loader, and he jumped on the bucket. And anyway, long story short, the bucket fell onto him and crushed him, taking his life.

And through that time, I kind of entered a silent, quiet, I kind of got isolated or started living alone. I didn't have anyone to share with. A month or two later, my dad took on a hired man from the community here, and I fell in love with him. Like, he was my hero, and I did everything with him when I was outside. When he was there, I was with him.

In April of the following year, so three-quarters of a year after the farm accident, we were out in the fields one day spreading manure, pen-packed manure, in the broad daylight, and he made some sexual advances on me. And I was confused, maybe at first, like, what? You know, a lot, I think I had a lot of confusion at the point, but I didn't hesitate much, and I just joined him. I remember coming back after that load into the barn, and I just felt so, so horrible. I just felt rotten. And I ended up standing in the corner in the barn there crying, hoping that my dad would come along and ask me what's wrong, but he didn't. Instead, the hired man came over, and, you know, he saw me crying, and he put his hand on my shoulder, and he wondered what's wrong, and I just shrugged my shoulders.

And then he said something like, "It'll be okay," and I'm not sure what else he said, but he said, I got the message that please be quiet. And I was. I kept that story quiet for 18 years. And I lived in a lot of sexual immorality all through my teenage years. Masturbation, bestiality, lusting, it was just part of my everyday life, almost. Pretty much every day.

Yeah, I couldn't even sit in church on Sunday and think clean things. Like I had all these questions about married life and sex life and just all this stuff. It just consumed my mind. I had some good memories too, but my brothers also said that I was different than the rest of the family. That's only more recently coming out. And I'm still trying to understand what that all was, but there was definitely something there. And I feel fortunate I didn't pass the sexual part on to my brothers. By the grace of God, I didn't.

Yeah, so there's another story that's a little piece of my life, and this is me hurting my brother. He was six years younger than me, and somehow me and him clashed. He was energetic and aggressive, got a lot of things done, and he wasn't afraid to challenge me. But I would tussle and wrestle him and pin him to the floor, and I often pinned him down. Looking back today, looking at it today now, some of the struggles that he has and the struggles that we have in our relationship between me and him, a lot of that stems from the way we interacted, the way I treated him. I broke him and crushed him. I didn't take care of him like I should have. And it's really hard looking at that because it's something that I've tried to… I've done what I can to restore that to where it was, but there's only so much I can do. Like, the brokenness is still there. You know, there's still pieces of it. Although God is redeeming that, but…

You know, so then at 19, I talked a little bit about this before, I started dating, but I also, at the same time, I found myself a hero, and I looked up to him. I basically adored him. He was a minister in the church and a big farmer, had a large fleet of equipment and farmed a lot of land. And I started doing the same thing, bidding on farmland and putting a tremendous workload on my siblings. Never really had a plan, but I just kept plowing forward. My brothers got to the point where they didn't even want to work with me. They made promises to themselves that they would never join, like in a business venture. They were not gonna join their big brother. It was that bad.

So at that point, my belief system was that I need to prove to the world that I am something. I need to be in control. No one else can do it as good as I can. I trusted basically nobody. I had to be in the know. I had to know everything. And so I made a lot of phone calls and drove people crazy. To those that worked around me, I saw them as slaves to help me get what I wanted. And the way I thought about the opposite gender, women, it was dirty and completely sexualized.

So stepping forward a few more years, in 2021, I went, I was at my place of work, and my hired man came to me and confessed his involvement in sexual immorality, and I was shocked. And I made a promise right then and there that I'm gonna do what it takes to help people like this. And so there was an Amish revival meeting. Free Indeed had a meeting in Dauphin County. And we went to that, and you know, I went thinking that I'm gonna help this, my hired man, to fix his problem. And coming home, or at the end of the meeting, I realized that I have a problem, and this is a whole new road for me.

So I came home and confessed it. Confessed all my past to my wife, and she was… Three days from having a child, I think, it was an overload for her, but I knew if I don't do it right away, I'll never do it. So that was kind of the turning point of me turning around, and I overcame masturbation, pretty much was free of that right away, not without a struggle. I had some dear friends walking with me and helping me through that time.

But as the year went on, I realized that I have a story. There's something underneath all this, and the story of sexual abuse came up. And so I went to my uncle that lives not too far from here and just confessed the whole story to him. And he grew up next door to us, and he sat there and cried in front of me. And I was like, whatever, you know, like, what's the big deal? At the same time, I started to realize the significance of the story, maybe the significance of being sexually abused, that maybe it's not normal, or maybe there's more damage than I realized. But that was kind of the beginning of the sexual abuse story coming to the light.

Then we went to the church. We started by going, we wanted to take care of it all the way and went for church support. The first minister we went to was very supportive. He was willing to go with us and report it to the law and take care of it. And then he went for approval. Like I said, he went to the next minister, and that minister went to the next minister, and a couple months later, I get a letter from another church elder removing my communion privileges.

Well, by this time, I was starting to get, maybe, I was starting to realize that this is, like, something's in my community that I didn't realize was here, or it, I think it, I started feeling betrayed because I felt like I was coming out. Here I was doing my best to come out of my past, and at the same time, I'm being asked to, you know, not take communion because I'm bringing these things up. So we entered that winter. I wasn't allowed to have communion, and it just went from one thing to the next.

In March of 22, there was a family meeting where my family and the church leaders got together, and they had all the bishops and deacons down one side of the table. It was a long Mennonite type table, extended, you know, fully extended. There were bishops and deacons down one side and the Wise family on the other side. And it seemed like their goal that night was to tell my family how bad of a person I am in front of everybody. And they definitely got that done, but the results didn't turn out like they wanted. Instead of blowing the Wise family to pieces, it actually kind of brought us together. Like, we supported each other like we hadn't before, but still it was this, this broken thing of trusting and trying to, trying to understand or think about who these church leaders really were.

In the meeting, you know, there were some things that got said that were really, really difficult. One man slammed his fist down on the table and said, "This must stop." And then he suggested going to Phil Haven and getting on mental drugs. And I just, I was just dumbfounded. I sat there and I thought, my, oh, I thought this stuff happens somewhere else, you know, maybe in another state or something, but not in my own community.

Anyway, we eventually moved on from that meeting. That was like the moment that trust between my family and the leadership fell apart. But then it was four weeks after that meeting that there was a death in our house. My youngest daughter at the time, my little girl, 13 months old, started getting sick one day and she got spinal meningitis and passed away that evening. And so we had a funeral to plan and face. You know, when I came back the next morning, she was pronounced dead at the hospital on a Monday night and I came back Tuesday morning, back into the community. And I thought, oh my, how in the world am I gonna, how are we gonna plan this funeral? I have no idea. But God gave us grace to go through that.

All the church leaders that were at the meeting four weeks earlier, they all showed up again. And it's not that it felt very good at all. It felt like betrayal. It felt like there was, yeah, it just, it was confusing. You know, here these people had done all this harm, but now in front of everyone else, you know, the community at large, friends, neighbors, relatives at the funeral, they're acting like my friends. And it was extremely difficult. But we were given grace to walk it.

So I think we hung around there at that church for a couple more months and then we moved on to another smaller community church and really were accepted there. I felt like I owe a lot to them because they just gave me space to be a person. You know, this was all still in the same community. They heard stories about me and, and God started doing a healing work in my broken heart there at that church. And just learning to trust people, learning to communicate, learning to have relationships, felt like a lot happened there. There's still things that, you know, aren't the way I wish they were, but God is doing a work in this community. He's doing a work in me. He's doing a work in my family.

We're learning a lot about relationships and we're learning a lot about sexual abuse and the effects that sexual abuse has on people. And we also learned a lot about how community can respond to these stories. And to me, it's devastating, but this is reality. These are things that people work, that people go through, and we're working at figuring out how to bring something better. Like how can a community respond in a healthy way to somebody who brings out a story of sexual abuse?

Yes, it is dirty, but it's, it's real life. So in all the brokenness, I feel like God is teaching us a lot and life has gotten a lot deeper and richer through all this. I wouldn't wish it on anybody, but I'm almost at the place now today where I can say that I'm glad that God allowed these things to come into my life so that I can understand what other people go through. I know not everybody is called to do this kind of thing, but it did give us a lot of experience and a bigger picture of who God is in brokenness. So, yeah, life is not now. It's not all roses, but God is good. It's good to be here. It's good to be able to tell my story. You know, I couldn't tell this story. I couldn't tell this story for the first year or two or three without having serious, like body shakes and just a lot of nervousness. Even today, it's still there, but God has done some healing. So I'm thankful for that.

Yeah, I just want to say again, you know, if you're listening to this story, everyone has a story. Maybe it's not as extreme as my story, but I am a believer that every person has a story. So I think that's where I'll stop. Thank you.

Okay. Well, thank you very much for sharing, Jonathan. That was really, it's quite the story. And it just goes to show that no matter what the circumstances, God can redeem the situation. And I failed to mention in the beginning there that Jonathan Wise grew up in the old order Mennonite community. So that would have been the setting that he was, all of that would have happened in.

Yeah, I was inspired by the work that God has done in his life. My thoughts just went to, we know this couple from Mexico. The mother was kidnapped at 17 and sex trafficked. And then later she escaped. And then I think it would have been almost probably 15 years later, the gang that had originally kidnapped her found her again. She had went to a different location, different place, trying to hide. And then repeatedly raped her and basically thought they killed her, beat her to death, but she actually survived it. And just walking with that situation and seeing what God has done in her life. Obviously, we think of these horrific things that happen and we almost can't completely even connect to it. And we think, well, you know, it happened, it's past, but there's a lot of trauma and there's a lot of forgiveness that has to happen. And it's just, it has been a blessing to see that with those types of situations, the people that are the victims, they cannot be free until they forgive. Her husband was very, very angry, would have really liked to take revenge and all of that. But it's amazing how after they release all of that pain and that hatred, they can move on with life. And when we don't forgive, it's only through, it's only us that is bound. We only hurt ourselves.

So, and just a question, Jonathan, you mentioned the abuse. I wasn't quite clear. Was that like a one-time happening or was that an ongoing happening for you?

Thanks for asking. I didn't clarify that. That happened, it lasted for three years. I don't exactly remember how many times it happened. It's kind of all mixed together in my mind. But yeah, from 9 to 12, that's how long it was going on. Pretty much every, I don't know if it was every time dad disappeared from the farm, that's when it happened. He didn't even have to disappear from the farm for it to happen. But I know when he went to a sale or when he left to do something, that's definitely when it happened.

Okay. Yeah. Thank you for clarifying. And we're going to open it up here. If anyone has questions, comments, feel free to unmute yourself. You should be able to unmute yourself now and come with your questions or comments.

Yeah. Good morning, Jonathan. Thank you for sharing your story here this morning. I definitely feel sympathetic towards you with, I mean, this, this got to be a hard story to share, but I think as you share your story, it'll help others perhaps to be able to come out and share their story as well. And obviously, I mean, that's where healing happens, doesn't it? So a question for you. You touched on it a little bit. You talked about the meeting the church elders had with your family and how trust was broken down during that meeting. And then later on the funeral of your daughter and those same elders show up and how very difficult it was. So, so we're seeing a situation where, yeah, you were, you were abused and the elders that should have been there for you weren't there for you, and it was just a huge breakdown of trust. And then also the write-up, that invitation, the description of your talk, you shared how in that description, you wrote up, you said about talking about how that affected your relationships in your community, in your marriage, and obviously you're sharing about the mistrust, is that right? And so I guess the question for you is, well, you mentioned you've been, how do you just say that there's ongoing healing and stuff? How is it for you today when you, is it when you meet strangers or is there a certain kind of people? Are you still affected by that where there's mistrust and it's hard to trust people? Yeah, if you could speak into that a little bit, that would be helpful, and then maybe that could be helpful for others that are walking through the same situation where there's a breakdown of trust, how can there be healing and how can trust be restored? And Levi actually touched on that, forgiveness. He was talking about this lady from Mexico, how, isn't that what you said, Levi, where she had to forgive to find freedom.

Yeah, I don't know if you have any insights on that, Jonathan.

Sure, yeah, so I live in the same community. I still see these people. I don't interact as closely with them, but, you know, it's still there. Like, it's the hurt is for that, just like Levi said, for that lady today, if one of her abusers, if one of those gang members would walk, meet her at the hardware store or, you know, if she would meet them somewhere, like she would go through a lot of internal turmoil. And that's, I do that too. You know, if I meet these men, like, it goes through me. Like, it just, like something inside of me just, there's just like boiling water or something. I don't know. We are working at some restoring, but that's a slow thing, you know, to learn to trust. It's one thing to release and let go and forgive. It's a completely different field to build trust again. Forgiving and trusting are not the same.

What are some of the steps you're taking to build trust?

So we are involved in a project to restore trust. There is a third party counseling place involved. And we'll actually sit in a circle with some of these men, the ones that were willing to come back and talk with our family. And we're not at the place where I wish we were, but we're making progress. We're actually sitting in a circle and talking. So I would say that's as much as I know. That's as much as I've experienced. You know, being able, I think it's a miracle to actually be able to sit in the same room with them and talk about some of the hurts that we experienced.

Yeah, thank you for that.

Okay, anyone else?

Morning, Jonathan.

Good morning, Duane. I'm driving and it's dark, so I'm not, I don't have my video on. It's not going to do you any good. So I just want to put my arm around your shoulder and I love you, brother. Thank you for sharing your story again and making a difference that way. I want to add in here just a little piece is your story has made a really big spot in your heart, your experiences for other people that have been in this scenario. And probably some of the reason that the whole thing with ministry and such like didn't go so well is of your involvement, maybe, or conversation back and forth with some other people that were also going through some difficult things with sexuality and some harm and things like that. And, you know, anytime it seems that somebody stands for truth and says, I will protect the most vulnerable in this world, you will be targeted. And yeah, I want to bless you for being willing to say, you know what, I'm going to be a friend even if it's not popular. And yeah, that's just a few comments, I guess. I know way too much of your story to be able to ask a question really, I guess. But yeah, like I said again, my arms are around your shoulders right now.

Thank you, Duane. Thanks a lot for coming on and sharing that.

Okay, still opportunity for anybody else that would like to share or ask a question.

All right, I'd like to say, Jonathan, thank you for coming on and sharing. I'm sure it takes courage. I want to bless you for your courage. And I'd like to say to anybody else that's listening and not saying anything this morning or others that listen to this later on, just like God has a story of redemption for Jonathan, he has a story of redemption for you too. He has a plan of redemption.

I'm sure that one of the things that if Jonathan could go back and do things differently, for sure it would be this. As soon as this sexual abuse started to happen, he would go and tell someone. Anytime along the road, along the way there, he wishes he could go and tell someone. And that's the lie of the enemy, or that's one of his main tactics is when these kinds of things happen, that he wants us to be quiet. He wants us to believe that our story is just different and nobody would understand. He wants us to believe that it's better to be quiet than to tell anybody. So whatever brokenness you are experiencing, don't believe the lie that it's better to be quiet about it. Go find somebody to talk to because really that's where redemption starts. That's where healing starts. That's where finding wholeness again starts.

1 John 1:7
says, if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. I think sometimes we, at least for me, I have misunderstood that sometimes to mean that, okay, walking in the light is doing what's right. And in a sense it is, but it's so much more than that. Walking in the light is just simply being open, have everything out in the open, have everything out in the light where the light can shine on it and we're transparent and things aren't hidden. There's no dark cesspool in our life that nobody can get to. Things are out in the light. When things are out in the light, God can be worked with. Now others can join you on your journey. Now others can share with you. You can share back and forth and that's where fellowship happens. Darkness and fellowship don't go together. Light and fellowship do, and light and healing go together.

So our goal for this whole program, Hope for Wondering Amish, and certainly for this morning, is to share stories of redemption that can be encouraging to others to also walk that road of redemption. Again, thank you, Jonathan. May God be praised. Thank you, Ephraim. I really liked that, what you brought out. And I would want to amen that and say, you know, if you find yourself stuck and you feel like you have a story that no one wants to hear, it's worth pushing through it. Even if you have to go sit through a minister's meeting or whatever you find, you know, when people try and quiet you down, it's still worth pushing through it.

Yeah, I really appreciate it. Sorry, I was gonna say I really appreciate what Brother Ephraim brought out. And so I guess the truth is, as children are sexually abused, the enemy wants to keep them quiet with fear, shame, guilt, all that. So what could a couple of pieces, if we could elaborate?

Hey, just a little bit about one thing from that I think you really touched on some things. Like if for anybody that may be listening to this in the future, what would that advice be? There's that, find somebody to talk to. Excuse me. Isn't, I mean, isn't one lies like nobody wants to hear this story. Mine is different. Mine is unusual. Mine is too shameful. It's too dirty to talk about, but what would some advice be? There's at least one person in this world that cares about your situation. Think about who's that one person. It could be what, an aunt, an uncle. It could be grandpa, grandma, whoever it could be in your life. Am I right, Jonathan?

Yeah, you're bringing back memories for me. So the first people I started talking to were out of state as I started breaking my story. I didn't want anyone close by hearing it. So I called, I had a relationship with Duane High, and he's one of the first ones that heard my story. And then the first place I went for counseling was in Ohio, you know, out of state. So I, for some reason I thought I wanted to go far away first, but even that broke the silence.

But you were already married. You were already a father. When it comes to more teenagers, the younger you are, isn't it more intimidating to find somebody to talk to? So I guess if you're a young teenager out there, you're afraid to talk, you know, talk to somebody, there is somebody that cares about you and it may be right in your family, right in your church community. Think about it. Who's that one person that I can go talk to? Somebody will listen to you and care for you and help you to be restored or be redeemed, help your situation to be redeemed.

Yeah, thank you for sharing all of you. That was really interesting. I just thought about my thoughts went to when something like that happens, and it, as Jonathan said, we all have our story. It's different, different for everybody. But when something like that happens, usually it traps us in sin. And that adds another layer of difficulty to actually come out and say what was happening because then we also have our own sin to contend with. And I think that's why if you, if we feel like, well, I will just keep this to myself. I will work through this with God's help by myself. It doesn't seem to work because we have to confess. We have to let it out to someone. It's freeing us. For me, I was never in that type of a situation, but I was also in some, went through some difficult things and also sin in my life. And for me, it was my wife that I started confessing and confiding in. So there is someone that will be willing and actually wants to walk with you.

And I just remember for me, when I, when I, the first time I started talking to my wife about some of the things in the past, I was sure that she's going to reject me, that she would, you know, she would never want to have anything to do with me again because I was such a bad person, but it actually worked exactly the opposite. It drew us closer together. So yeah, I really appreciated that. And I would like to just share one comment. If obviously we're talking about if anyone is listening and has been in a situation like this, I would also like to comment on if you ever are interacting with someone that was hurt. We tend to categorize these things like usually probably sexual abuse is probably at the top. That's the worst. Um, but we categorize sin. And that was just brought to my attention recently. We have two neighbor men that are married. Um, and when we discovered that, well, there's these two older men living in the same house, I was a little bit suspicious, but later we discovered that, yeah, they are married in a sexual relationship.

And initially, you know, your thoughts go, well, that's, that's a really bad sin. That's a, you know, what, what do you do about that? That's, uh, should we even associate with them? And, you know, with some time and prayer, we were neighbors and we would get back, go back and forth and visit. And um basically what happened is we, we've had them over for meals in our house. Um, we have never discussed their sin, even though I have tried to share the gospel of Jesus. They're not very open to that, but we have made some progress. We realized that they have been abused, if you will, by people all their lives, and that us adding to that won't help anything at all. So we're trying to show them the love of Christ. And so I was sharing that story with someone recently, and they said, yeah, the problem is, is that we categorize them and say that they are so bad, but the other neighbor that is divorced and remarried, we say, well, we accept them. We never even think about it. But in God's eyes, they are both sin that separates them from God.

So I sometimes think that we have to be very careful that we don't categorize different sins and then, because something is really, really bad. I realized that some things are worse. They have a lot more trauma. They have a lot more effects. But I think we have to be more redemptive with those situations. And maybe if we were a little bit more redemptive, people wouldn't be quite as hesitant to reveal some of these more difficult things.

So, we still have a little bit of time. Is there anyone else that would like to share?

Yeah, this is Dwayne again. And so, maybe, maybe you're in this story, and maybe in your story, you were the one that inflicted abuse on somebody else. And it's really easy to tell an abuse story. It's really easy to pile a lot of blame and shame and whatnot on the person that did the abuse. And something that I think is healthy to remember is, whether the abuser or the person being abused, those people have a need for Jesus. They need love. They need people that care for them. And many, many times, the person inflicting abuse was abused in some way previously. And it's really easy to throw that person under the bus while we pity or care for the one that received abuse. And that is, we have to be really careful with that. They need the same stuff that the person that got abused. They need the same kind of care.

They need, you know, really, really, really do. And like was mentioned earlier, being a friend to somebody, just being a friend. You know, that, I didn't, I did walk with Jonathan through this stuff. And I was a friend to him pretty closely, and we talked a lot for probably less frequent three years earlier and more frequent up until the time that he came out with his story. And I didn't know that he had this story, but I was fairly comfortable talking about sexuality. And I could tell that he wasn't so comfortable about it, but he was curious about it. Um, but I had no idea the story that was underneath. And I'm just saying, be a friend, um, whether it's either side, you know, um, be there and, and, um, make a space where they can dump, spill their guts and you don't gasp, um, and say, you did what? Be a friend. Um, the, the most safe place there is, is where you can say anything and it's like, okay, I see. I'm sorry about that. How can I help you? And that opens the door to the rest of the story. You know, it really does.

Thank you, Dwayne. Thank you so much. I like that. Yeah, I just want to say thank you, Dwayne, and God bless you for being there for Jonathan. I really appreciate that. I, I don't think we ever met. I don't think I have any idea who you are, but thank you for being a friend to Jonathan. Thank you for making a difference in his life. That's a good example. Yeah, praise God. It is, you know, like I say, I was only being a friend. I had no idea, um, what was coming. Um, we just had connected well and we're continuing to connect. And so, um, you never know when you're deeply connecting with somebody what their story is, and just be a friend to people. Jesus loved people and we should too. To be Christlike, we also will love people. And I'm not a special person. I'm not trying to do anything myself by saying any of that, but what's really important is to remember that every person you meet has a story and how you handle them will make the difference. If you handle people in a caring way, you're opening the door for somebody to say, I need help. So I think you brought out a very valuable point there, Duane. Be a friend to people.

Isn't it true one of the biggest fears of us is, and I've never had anybody come to me and pour out, you know, their sexual abuse background, none of that, but isn't it true that a fear lies within us? What will I say if somebody would come to me and tell me a bunch of bad stuff? But I think you hit the nail on the head. Sorry, my voice is too early in the morning. But I think you hit the nail on the head. Just be a friend, be a listening ear. It's not maybe so much in what you say, but it's in you being a friend to other people. Exactly right. Truly caring. And like I said earlier, jaw dropping is a door slammer. It really is.

And you know, just learn to be okay, whether it's a gay relationship or sexual abuse story or whatever it is. And I would also interject here, we can easily see sexual abuse as the most damaging thing, but I've been through this kind of stuff pretty deeply in my own family and other scenarios. And sexual abuse in itself is not nearly as damaging as the response. The response of the people that really matter in your life and, yeah, the people that most should be protecting you responding in a wrong way is far, far more damaging than the actual abuse. The response really, really matters.

And when somebody's story comes out, and I think Jonathan's okay with this, if I say this, is when somebody's been hiding three years of abuse for 18 years, it doesn't look pretty when it comes out. It just doesn't. It looks messy. And we need to be okay with it being messy because it's gonna look messy. And we can't expect somebody that's hidden things for this long and developed a personal belief system around it, when they finally come out, it comes out like a volcano and it splatters around a bit. And we need to be okay with that.

And just be okay. If you're gonna walk with somebody in the mess, it's gonna be messy for a while. And you need to be okay with getting a black eye from the community, even if you're a long ways from there. I experienced that. I had people from my community, even though we lived far apart. Yeah, I definitely got a black eye for being a friend. And I'm okay with that. It's okay.

So, yeah, I'll stop with that. Duane, my name is Nathan Boblitz, and I'm also just blessed to hear what you're saying. It's something very close to my heart. I know it's time to quit, and I'm afraid I'm gonna open another can of worms. But the question I have is, am I right to say that if you do what you were doing, that is all that's required of you? You're not required to decide when Jonathan should go and forgive those people. Or do you ever intercept that in that journey? Do you ever intercept that thought that, you know, Jonathan, you really won't be free until you forgive those people?

And really quickly, the reason I'm asking that question is, over the past year, I've walked with somebody that was hurt, that was abused. And it just seems like it's at a standstill. And I don't know what to do, but I see unforgiveness, but I don't feel that's my job to tell him that because I know what he'll tell me. He'll tell me, you don't understand. He'll just flat out come to my face and tell me.

Did not experience that, and you do not understand. And I'm like, but what if I, this is so un… This is, it leaves me with a defeated feeling, like, we're getting nowhere. Here we sit again, listening to the same story again. And my question to you is that, that is really all that's required of me, though, is to be that person that you just let him dump all of that. It was years of abuse. And I also feel it just takes a lot of time. It comes out in the most unprofessional and sloppy way. And just be there. Am I right? I guess, Jonathan, the question I have for you, how would it have felt to have Dwayne tell you, you need to go forgive these people? It would not have worked very well. I'm sure he felt like saying that, though. I don’t know that I did. Um, I guess there's a couple things going through my mind that are good ways to respond to something like this. Um, and I believe the number one thing would be, would be, um, if you have, and, and most people, I think, do have some level of experience, if you're in a place where you're seeing somebody needing to forgive, I would hope that you have worked through needing to forgive somebody in your life. You know, if you haven't ever needed to forgive somebody, then nobody ever hurt you, right? So, I believe one of the best ways to nudge somebody towards forgiveness, this is not telling them they need to forgive, but to nudge them towards that, is to say, you know, I can relate with you on this and this scenario in my life where this person hurt me, and I didn't find freedom until I came to forgiveness, uh, came to the point of forgiving them. Um, and, and just relating your testimony, but not saying you need to do this, relating your story and letting it lay at that.

And the second thing to that that comes to me as you ask this question is, it is extremely important that you lay out what is forgiveness, because many, many people have abused forgiveness and said, forgive, and then they've added forget to the tail of it. And that is never belongs together. You cannot forget a traumatizing scenario in your life. It is humanly impossible. Without God, it is impossible. Um, and forgiveness is not forgetting. So what is forgiveness? Forgiving is giving up the right to revenge to that person, and rather loving them and caring about them as a person, as somebody that's hurting, that also has a story, realizing that they too have something painful in their life, very likely, if they've done what they've done to you. Coming to a place of saying, you know what? I give up the right to revenge, and I choose to care for that person's pain. Um, explaining what forgiveness is, because I believe from what I've seen many times, people say they can't forgive, you don't understand, part, in part, because they misunderstand what forgiveness really is. That's my thoughts, but I would love to hear your input as well.

No, I would definitely agree with that. It's, I grok with this thing of, of seeing, um, in my own, but I always keep in mind how finite that I am. I cannot, I cannot fathom I'm not God. I'm only called to listen in and be that whatever. I do have a story of forgiveness, um, towards somebody that should have been there to protect me and wasn't. And I wrestled with that for several months. And I came to the place, my wife and I were talking about it, and I said, I know I need to, but I can't bring myself to do it. And I came to a place where I said, dear, would you please walk me through a prayer of forgiving that person? And because I couldn't bring myself to say those words, to say that I forgive. It was incredibly painful. And she prayed and I repeated what she prayed, and I cried like crazy. I mean, it hurt, physically hurt to do that. Um, but it was needful. Um, so I do have my, in my own story, a piece where, yeah, I had, I had to walk through that. So, um, just realizing the intensity that forgiveness can be in some cases is, is helpful just to be compassionate for them. Depending on the scenario, it can be, like I say, in my story anyhow, and I've heard others that were similar that it can be really, really painful. I mean, to do that. Maybe it was just my own will that needed to be broken. I don't, I don't know, but thank you for that, Duane. I'm just simply going to pray about it.

Thanks for the advice. Thank you, Jonathan, for your story. That was, uh, I would love to have, uh, the individual that's in my life be able to say this, you know, give his story. Um, I think there would be a lot of healing in that. Thank you for your bravery, for your uh, we're just all here with our arms around you and lifting you up, brother in Christ that I've never got to know, but God bless you. Just remember these stories take time. Um, I knew Jonathan fairly connectedly for three years before this story came out. And your story is out on the table for three or four years now? Yeah, it is. So it's, this is a six to seven year span of time that we're talking about, and it's important to remember that. Um, it takes time. Healing takes time. Be patient. And I would just echo that. Always point them to Jesus. We don't have to have any answers as long as we can point them to the source of healing. And I know that sometimes that might be overdone where people, uh, really push that. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying being there, showing what Jesus looks like, which really is one word, love. Um, but also be able to bring Jesus into the picture by our words sometimes. Um, yeah, really appreciate all of that, uh, conversation. I feel like it was very, very worthwhile. And it is very unfortunate that some of these things happen, uh, even in, you know, settings that they shouldn't happen, but, uh, I am really blessed with hearing that, you know, and seeing people that go through these things and are able to retain their faith, um, are able to retain, um, their relationships and come out the other side and actually be a better person for it.

So I think we'll wind it down here. Um, thank you very much for sharing, Jonathan. It was a worthwhile hour. Would you close us in a word of prayer yet? Heavenly Father, we come here this morning and thank you. Thank you so much for the way that you work among people. Thank you for, um, making your home, making your abode, making your temple in other human beings. Father, thank you so much for coming to me through other people. Thank you for being there when I needed to be there, because Lord, if it wasn't for your mercy, I would, I don't know where I would be today, but you were there and you've been kind and gracious to me, and I'm just so thankful for that. Father, just may this story be used to, uh, further your kingdom. If there's people that listen to this and identify with it, I just pray that your kingdom could be furthered and glorified and that it will bless each one that listens and each of the men here this morning, and I want to bless the work that Hope for Wondering Amish is doing. And, uh, just thank you again for your son, Jesus, and thank you for sending him here on the earth to live in the flesh and live with us and then die to save us. And then, um, thank you for his life. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

The great Jehovah pilgrim through this barren land.