Jerry Martin continues his testimony by describing the walk of faith after leaving the Old Order Mennonite setting, with special attention to baptism, repentance, humility, trials, and the danger of pride after God opens someone’s eyes. He explains how the Scriptures became living bread to him, how rebaptism caused conflict in his community, and how a house-church beginning later tested whether the work was truly rooted in Christ. His counsel is to repent quickly, avoid rash decisions, keep a humble heart, and let God use fiery trials to burn away what is built by man.
Key Points: – Jerry describes how true repentance and baptism became deeply personal after the Bible opened to him. – He warns that seeing truth can still be mixed with pride, bitterness, and a wrong attitude toward those one has left behind. – The early house-church season brought prayer, confession, fresh life, and later serious tests through disagreements and offenses. – Jerry emphasizes that rules alone cannot hold a fellowship together if hearts are not clear before God and one another. – He describes a dark season after the group dispersed and how God used continued searching, Scripture, and teaching on head covering and conviction to steady him and his wife. – His closing counsel is to repent quickly but avoid quick, reactionary decisions, because the world slowly molds people into its image.
Scripture References: – Luke 3 – Isaiah – Acts 2 – Mark 10 – Luke 7 – 1 Corinthians – Amos 3 – Galatians
Guide me, O the great Jehovah, pilgrim through this barren line. Welcome to Hope For Wondering Amish. It’s a blessing to have Jerry Martin back with us this morning. There’s a previous talk that he did growing up in the Old Order Mennonite Church. Sharing his youth years of sowing wild oats and how the Lord got a hold of him and changed his life. That recording is available on the website or YouTube and a couple other platforms if any of you are interested in that. Welcome back, Brother Jerry. We’re glad to have you again. Why don’t we have a prayer? Thanks with us this morning. Lord, may you just give him the inspiration and the freedom to share what you have laid upon his heart. And we pray that this time could be helpful and a blessing to many. Thank you, Lord, for your goodness. Thank you for giving your life for us in the precious name of Jesus. Amen. All right. The time is, Brother Jerry. Okay. Thank you. Well, good morning, everyone. I can honestly say that it has been a walk of faith and not without hope, but it has been a walk of faith because I didn’t always know my future and always know where I was going. So I grew up Old Order Mennonite. So when I think back, once I committed to joining the church and getting baptized, I didn’t give God much thought after that. You know, I’d pray. We’d probably pray at night and pray it three times. It’s typical to pray before mealtimes, but it was always a silent prayer. That’s just the way our, growing up, that was our culture. We didn’t have a prayer book, so you had a, you had, you know, to apply your own thoughts. I remember, you know, it took an effort. It, it was hard to pray to God, basically. It wasn’t uncommon for me to, uh, be in a silent prayer, a mealtime or something, and my thoughts would actually wonder. I, I, and then I’d kind of just, uh, be done with my prayer. But then I’d try again, you know, uh, well, it’s really God in heaven. I should pray, you know, pray, really pray about things and, uh, you know, but, I guess I just didn’t know him and it was hard to communicate in a real honest way with God and Jesus. Uh, but that, uh, changed as time went on. I, I guess I’m, I’ll just break in probably. I don’t, I think I shared very quickly, uh, some of my life after baptism. So now I, now I’m going to, uh, share a little more about after my baptism, a little more detail maybe, and some things that I probably wish I would have said, or some things I learned along the way and how I got to where I am now, I guess. And hopefully it’ll bless somebody just the way the Lord led me. So I, I grew up in a family that read a lot, did a lot of book reading. So after, uh, I submitted my life to Christ and the Bible opened, up to me. It became my source of life, my daily bread, literally. I don’t think I read any book for quite a season of time. I don’t remember how long. And it’s ironic, but my wife is not the same. She, she, the, the, the book, the Bible was always a hard book for her to read up till she was born again, because whenever she read it, it was very condemning to her. It would just, she had to close it. It wasn’t, it didn’t, it didn’t speak love. It didn’t, I think maybe growing up under the law or whatever, all she could see was what she did wrong in it, which changed to some degree, but never quite like it did for me. I don’t know, since then, probably a few times, but I should probably again, it’s been a while. But, it didn’t take me long after God opened my eyes that when I came across the scripture of baptism, and I’ll just say the way it spoke to me, and it’s, I’m not gonna, I’m gonna kind of quickly read some scriptures in Luke 3, you can follow me if you want, it’s in Luke chapter 3, it’s about John the Baptist, his baptism of repentance, it says, for the remission of sins, and that, after I, you know, I was baptized in the midnight, and that was just as, it went hand in blood, he became a member, and also accepted Jesus at the same time, according to the way they see things, but unfortunately, that was not, I guess I was not, I don’t fault anybody, I didn’t know God, and I was living my own selfish life, and I thought that was just the way you do it, didn’t really clearly see what it really meant, and what it all entailed, but as I read the scriptures with new eyes, I came across baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, and it stood out to me why baptism of the remitting sins, and then, as in Luke, chapter 3, verse 4, it says, as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, saying, the voice of one crying in the wilderness, prepare the way of the Lord, make his path straight, every valley shall be filled in, every mountain and hill brought low, and the crooked places shall be made straight, and the rough ways smooth, and all the flesh shall see the salvation of the Lord. So, it stood out to me that, well, this is the way it spoke to me, in repentance, that act of repenting and turning towards God prepares a way for Christ entering the temple, his body, or he becomes one with your spirit, and with that, repentance levels the playing field. That’s how it spoke to me, and it was, you know, in times past, when a king went to visit another country, they’d prepare a way for him to go so he could ride in his fancy chariot and all that. And that was just, as I saw that, it spoke to me that that’s, your repentance opens the door, a true godly repentance opens the door to God entering in, or his Holy Spirit, I should say. As you read on, it says, he rebukes the, he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized, grew to vipers, who weren’t you to flee from the wrath to come, and therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, we have Abraham as our father. For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham of these stones, and even now, the axe is laid at the root of the trees, therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So that, at that time, that meant to me, you know, somehow I had met, I thought I was, being a member, I thought I was, you know, what else did I need to do? I never realized I didn’t ever have true godly repentance, even though what stood out to me at that time was, you may not be perfect after repentance and baptism, but it says, even now, even as we speak, the axe is laid at the root of the tree. Basically, what spoke to me at that time was, in your sinful state, you can only produce bad fruit, but as you repent and turn towards God, instantly, there’s things that instantly change for me. There’s some things that took some time, and God, even now, keeps purging me, but have hope. The axe is laid at the root, that root that wants to produce bad fruit, and it could mean other things, but at that time, it spoke to me that the axe is laid at the root that gives that bad fruit. It’s going to kill the root and take care of that, and every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Then he goes on to, you know, does a little preaching about the tax collector and the soldier and all that. But I went on, on down to verse 16, it says, I baptize you, John answered, saying them, oh, no, verse 15, and expectation, all reason in their hearts about John, whether he was the Christ or not. So they were, they were, they knew that Christ was coming and that, and this, this new thing caused them to ponder those things. And John said, no, no, this baptism is, is just for the remission of sins and repentance. But like Peter, I think it’s Peter where it says, repent and be baptized and you will get, get, be given the gift of the Holy Spirit. So, so that Holy Spirit inside of you causes the spirit and the flesh to war after that. And so when I read over this, it just, even now I realize that this is, this flows out of your obedience. John answers saying to all, verse 16, I indeed baptize you with water, but there’s one mightier than I, that is coming, whose sandal strap I’m not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. And it took me, I didn’t immediately, that didn’t immediately speak to you, but later I realized there’s other scripture passages. I’m not going to share, I’m not going to share for the lack of time about all that, what that all meant to me at the time, but it says Holy Spirit with fire. That, that fire, it says his winnowing fan is in his hand and he will thoroughly clean his threshing floor and gather the wheat into the barn, but the shaft, he will burn with unquenchable fire. So the way that stood out to me at that time, back when I was pondering about baptism or not, I realized that once he, the baptism of repentance, once you repent and get baptized, that’s when the fiery trial start. That’s when he will continue the work that he has started. He will, if you let him, he will purge the threshing floor. He will clean you up. And I realized there’s probably a lot of different ways to look at that, but that’s just the way it spoke to me. And hence, that helped me decide to go for my second baptism. So with that, I guess I’m a true Anabaptist. I was baptized once and I just, it was really something that caused a lot of rustle because I knew if I did this thing, this baptism, it would have caused a stir in my family and lots of different things. And I’ve pondered a lot about that in the last year, a number of years since then. What is it in baptized as baptism that causes such a stir? So I’ve come to a place where I believe a true baptism of repentance that John the Baptist would not rebuke you is when you really repent in a godly fashion. It’s more than what meets the eye when you get baptized. Like I said, maybe in the last message I gave, that day of baptism was just a very special day for me. I wouldn’t trade it for the world. So anyway, that was one of the first things that came up was that baptism. And it was really not something easy to go through. And by evening, the community knew about it. I don’t know how. But it seems like here in America, we can go to a church and get baptized. Not much happens. But that’s not the case in lots of places in the world where baptism can cause a lot of trouble for a lot of brothers and sisters in the world. And yeah, I never quite expected to get quite the pushback that I did. Which, you know, thinking back, I realize I don’t blame anybody. I mean, what were they supposed to do? You know, promoted. Everybody can get confused maybe. But I guess where I stand now is if you’re baptized and you’re very comfortable with that wherever you were or wherever you are, leave it alone. I’ve met brothers since that are dear to me that have been baptized in old order settings. And I’ve stepped out and are comfortable with that. I’ve got brothers that are not and got rebaptized. So I guess I’m not promoting this per se, but I would say if God is asking you to, I would say for me, it definitely quieted that down. That was a very joyous time and I would not exchange that for the world. And then I had to since think of, I think it’s Mark 10. Real quick here. It’s interesting to think about baptism and then in Mark 10, verse 37, they were having this arm wrestle with amongst themselves and James and John. Ask him that Jesus would grant them to sit on the right hand and on the left hand in his glory. And Jesus answered him saying, you’re not able to. You don’t know what you asked. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink or to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? And they answered, they’re able. So, but to give, to sit on the right hand and on the left is not mine to give. Then he goes on to say, has a little back and forth about it, the greatest shall be the least and the servant of all and all that. But what I got out of it is, Jesus is literally saying, yes, you will be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with, whether that’s suffering or whatever. So I could say that, the very thing that was meant for evil, God can use for good. Everything that comes against you, if you trust God, he can lead you through those things. So, in that season, the Bible spoke to me. Almost anything I read was really, really just, had a new light, a new way to look at, even the Old Testament. And with that, I realized that, looking back, I was a pretty proud person. You know, when God shows you something, you see where you came from, per se, and when you see some wrong things, I guess I had to think of Moses. And I think that I did that to some degree. I had discussions with my family, and I think I went about it the wrong way, telling them what I see wrong. And it was primarily about rules and stuff, and I would not recommend that. That’s not going to go anywhere. I think it works way better if you could tell them what Jesus did for you than try to tell. Try to tell them what they’re all being wrong. Maybe if I was perched of my pride, maybe that would have worked better, but in that season I was in it did not. I saw something in the scripture that they are not seeing, and they should see it, hence I tried my best to show them. Well, that didn’t go down so well. I got probably more pushback that way. And you know, God had to deal with it. And the way he dealt with it, I was reading in, I don’t remember exactly when it was, but I was reading Luke 7, where it was about a sinful woman that came in crying and wiping Jesus’ feet, wetting them with her tears, and that, what was it, Simeon? Scribe that he went to have dinner with. He just, his thought was if he just knew what type of woman this was, he would not let them touch him even. I mean, that’s a sinner. And it just, I was reading over one time, it just stood out to me that God just spoke to me in that chapter saying, you know, Jerry, if you’re, that attitude towards where you came from, if you hold that attitude above them, you have it and they don’t, that they’re all wrong and you go about telling them they’re sinners, they’re not getting it, they’re sinners. If they would just know that they’re sinners and if that’s your attitude, you will never help them. I don’t know. Something in that just broke me. My attitude changed. Towards my fellow man after that. I could see them in a new way. It’s still true. If you, it doesn’t matter if the person in front of you is wearing tattoos and looks way different than you would. If you cannot, if you have that attitude that you’ve got it figured out and they don’t, God’s not with you. It’s the same if you’re a preacher, if you’re teaching the word and you have it and they don’t, they need to get this. If you have that attitude, God’s not with you. We need to remain very humble about who you are and where you came from. This lording over each other is very damaging and it’s, and it’s, I’ll be honest, it’s, it’s something I’ve wrestled with over the years, realizing that this attitude of being God’s chosen person or special person somehow, it dogs you when you’re a Mennonite. Somehow I believe you look around you, you’re doing everything better than everybody else. I mean, it works pretty well. We’re not getting divorced and being married. We’re, we’re doing all right. That, has to go, God help us. Uh, I was very, looking back, I was very bitter at where I came from and with that bitterness, according to scripture, you will just defile people. You will not, there will be no help for the, the very people you’re saying that have it wrong somehow. I, I beg you to look into yourself. Um, it’s something I deal with still today. I, I realize I, it’s very natural to judge people or how they look or whatever. It doesn’t matter what it is. Comparing yourself among yourselves. You’re not wise. It’s yeah. Maybe God showed you something. Yeah. Maybe God did show me something. Yeah. Maybe the Bible is an open book. Maybe it does speak to me like it. Maybe I do. Maybe God just had mercy on me and I needed it. It’s not there to, uh, I’m here to help people. It says, he who desires to be the great among you shall be your servant. And whoever desires to be first shall be slave of all. I, uh, since then I’ve, it seems like I’ve been, somewhat sensitive to that. And it doesn’t even have to be, it doesn’t even have to be, uh, like, standing at a pedestal and staring back at where you came from. It even happens amongst brothers and sisters in a church, functioning church body, when it’s very, it’s very easy to somehow think you, you know, feel better than them somehow or whoever it is you. Yeah. It’s, that’s a tough one. Uh, and then divide it out with, you know, you’re here to help each other and see each other’s flat spots. And I think it, it, it, it behooves us to do as Jesus said, make sure that the beam is out of our eye before we try to help our brother. That, that big beam that will cause you not to see clearly and it will cause more damage than good. If you try to reach out and help someone, it’s, uh, yeah, but I still sit here and I say, well, I still want to be faithful to, if I see something to help a brother along. So I, it’s just, I think it’s a hard attitude and God has had to deal with me there and it has since gotten much better. It’s, uh, way better than it used to be. My dad and me talk back and forth. We’ve had some deep conversations actually, and they’re actually coming up for a visit this summer, which is a treasure. So I, I, I, I respect, I, at the end of the day, I stand here, I respect where I came from. I understand why they do the things they do and I’m done mucking it. I’m done saying it’s wrong. I think it can, it can be very dangerous relying on a set of rules. But I, I don’t think that I’ll spend time, I don’t want to spend a lot of time, uh, bashing at rules that, yeah, extra biblical rules or whatever. I, I find it to work better to talk about heart issues and not get caught up in church rules and, yeah. So anyway, after baptism and, you know, walking with, uh, it started a journey of, we, we left the Mennonite church then because we were asked to either renounce our baptism or leave the church. One or the other, we decided to leave because, like I said, I wasn’t going to give that up for the whole world. It was just me and my wife both were ecstatic. I mean, heaven was open. Seemed like everything was just flowing smoothly. And it happened that a number of other, uh, Mennonites were, God was working in their hearts simultaneously. It was, seemed to be a move of God. And it’s interesting, before we even got baptized, before we left the church, I, I actually, we were having Bible studies and there was also a book study. An Old Order Mennonite opened his house. I learned that there was some people coming there. And again, it was me and my, what I thought I knew actually destroyed the book study. I, it was me, and a few other brothers and this Old Order Mennonite. And basically, I, there was a book that, on love, I think, I think it was even John Koblenz or something. I don’t, no, that doesn’t sound right. I forget the title, the, the author. It was a good book. And it was just how to walk with your family and stuff. And, but honestly, the season I was in, I was so wrapped up in what they left and how wrong they were, that I hijacked the meeting basically and, and destroyed the book study. Looking back, it took me some time after God dealt with me. I actually ended up going back and apologizing to him for, cause he pretty much, well, I was a bitter person and I, I think, so I’d get to the meeting and next thing you know, you’re on a topic that, about how wrong the Mennonites were and what they’re all doing wrong. And I think it was hard on him because he was being a not yet. Kind of worded it this way, that we should, I think we have to stop book study for a season. He said something like, I think, I thought I had left all those things lay. So, I, I, since then, it took a couple years before I realized it and I, I remembered that. God brought that to my memory and I ended up going back. I met him one time in the public and I just, just apologized to him. I said I was, not in my rightful place. I was, I hoped he’d understand that the season I was in was just, that’s all that could come out of me. I, God, God takes the Bible and he wants you to read it and wants it to, to use it as a handbook and a guide for you. If you stand there, picking it apart and pointing it all out there, that’s just a, I would recommend to use it as a, mirror for your life and guide us for your life and your family. And then if your heart is clear, you can help brothers along. I’m not saying that, but primarily I was reading it and I was seeing the things and holding it over other people’s heads. So along the way, we left the Mennonites, stopped that book study. It always was fresh to me. I always had something to say and it was interesting how that worked at that time. How often I got into conversations with ranked strangers. I wish that, I don’t know that it was all good, but definitely a season to be remembered. I lost friends. I’m not talking, I’m talking about, I run a business at home, custom staircases, and I meet people and customers all the time. Like, always interacting with customers. It was ironic how often. It seemed like it was primarily ladies. Like, many times I’d have women that have a, need a new stairs or with their husband and their husband, eh, whatever my wife wants, I’m good with that. And then you’d be discussing design and everything. Next thing you know, you’d be talking their personal problems. I don’t know how we got there. I think back a little, I’m thinking, how did that happen? What caused that to start a conversation? Or even long friends, long-time friends, a friend that I’m still a friend with, that he had a long, not to get into his story, but he had a rough, rough, rough childhood. And next thing you know, we’re sitting in the shop for three hours and he’s just sharing his life and we’re praying for each other. It was just a, yeah, I think back on those times and even with my, eccentricness and bitterness and my outspokenness at that time, many times in a wrong way, God still used that. It was, he used it in different ways then. But anyway, we left the church and a bunch of others’ families did at the same time, got baptized. We had been doing Bible study before then. Get together Wednesday nights for Bible study and go to the Mennonite church after that, our older Mennonite. And even there in the Mennonite church, the Bible spoke to me. I mean, the preacher spoke. He had a way. I never knew preachers could preach like that. So it’s the word of God. It’s alive. If your heart is open towards God, it will speak to you. Somewhere along the line, another lesson I had to learn. We got this phone call or this text message from somebody. I forget who. About this woman. This was a local woman. I knew the man. I’d grown up. They were in the neighborhood. They were actually ex-Amish at one. Left the Amish at one point. He married someone from outside the Amish church. And somewhere along the line, they got really rough. Had a really rough marriage. And she actually left him. And moved several hours north. And then we get this text message. That she’s coming back. She wants to reconcile with her husband. But with what they went through, she had put a court order against her husband. And they were not allowed to even see each other. But she’s coming back. She has to leave the situation she’s in. She was running from that situation up north. She had actually got… She was actually carrying a baby from another man at that time. It just sounded very rough to me. And… I just point out, this woman is coming back. She needs a place to stay. And I kind of proposed it to my wife. And she wasn’t sure about it. She didn’t… You know, she… It’s like letting someone into your life. Someone you don’t even know. And… I don’t know. The Bible was just speaking to me. And to me, it was clear in the Bible. If the Bible says you should help someone that’s in the ditch, you should help them. It doesn’t matter how you feel. Getting into agreement with my wife, I send a… A text saying, if you can’t… If you cannot find somewhere to stay, we’ll take her in. And… I don’t know. Looking back, talking over my wife later, I… That was wrong. I… I would not recommend moving ahead in most things without being together, you and your wife, as one, agreeing together. It says where two agree together, it shall be done. And… To me, moving ahead, making decisions without my wife, some bigger ones like that, that affect her life, was wrong on my part. I… I had to learn those lessons, too. Along the lines of pride and… And, you know, just… Holding… Comparing myself among others and just… The way God opened my eyes and then… Look around and you see all the other wrong things. That… There’s… There’s pride in that. I just had a lot of pride with all that. And… I’ve… I’ve pondered how is God supposed to deal with that. And I’ve come to a conclusion there’s one way he does deal with that. Fiery trials. What is built… By man… Will be burned. What is built by you… Will not stand… The trials of fire… And… And persecution. And… It says… In the scripture that… Something about the man being… Saved by fire. And what… Cannot be burned will remain. And I look back and I… I didn’t realize it at the time, but… Uh… In the season I was in… For the lack of… I guess just to explain it, I… I didn’t realize it at the time, but I think… Stepping from being a nobody… Just going to church, warming the pew, and going about my business… During the week… It feels like I’d… I’d cast all my apples into the cart of… Pleasing my customers. Like… That’s how I got my… Pat on the back, if you will. That’s how… So there was pride in that too. But… Turning… To Christ… And… Not being free from all that immediately… I… I recognized that… The same problem would dog me… After that. Like there was a… Seemed to be like… There was a need to be needed… Is what I call it. So… So… God used that… The opening of my eyes when I met people. And… I always had something to say. And… You know, if it was my turn to teach or share… I was just… God would… Be faithful and he’d… He’d give me something to share. And I didn’t have to… Necessarily… Dig it up like a teacher. I could just… It would flow for me. And… And I… And through that I… I realized… Looking back now… I… I… It created a… A cynicism… Or cynical way to look at people that… Did not experience that. That… Maybe had… Maybe not that… Gift of… Seeing the scripture that way. Or maybe they were growing into the Lord. Or I… I… I got to a place where I… Sometimes judged some of my brothers and sisters. Why can’t… Why… Who are… Why cannot they… Even just… Share… Some teaching. What… What’s wrong that they cannot even share? I had to… I had to repent of that too. Because… God deals with everybody differently. And… Yeah. Maybe I was strong in everybody. But I was very weak in others. Very proud. And… And… I… I… We left the Mennonites and we started gathering as a house church. Per se. Witnessing time in the firehouse or whatever. Person’s house. And it was very good. It was a very good season. I would say the good about that was… In the beginning especially. There was a lot of prayer and confession. As a… Small group. Uh… Everybody had a voice at the table. And… With people repenting, God gave them fresh revelation. I wasn’t the only one getting revelations. There was a lot of revelation going around. But I think sometimes… I was more comfortable speaking in front of a crowd than some people. And some people would just bunch up. And I… You know… I was very… Cynical about that. You know… The good thing… Time again. Repentance and a clean heart. Everybody seemed to become one with that. And… Uh… But with our open communion and… We… Our group was very open. And people would say that when they walked in. We’d get strangers walk in and they’d say, there’s just a sense of love here. And it was in the beginning. I… I mean… I thought… I thought everything was going right. My vision, my dream was going right. The church was growing. There was outsiders coming in even. And… You know, there was not everything perfect, but… As a whole… It seemed like God was blessing our efforts. And it definitely was blessing the repentance and confessions. It seemed like whenever that was going on, somebody had a revelation or a repentance or… Or something that they… God showed them. God was there. I mean… It spoke to hearts and more people shared. It was just a very… It’s probably the sweetest time of my life in that season. But I realized that as time grew… Time went on. Not everybody thought like I did. Not everybody saw the scriptures the way I did. And with people coming in from the outside, there was… Differences in how they saw the scripture… Differences in how the scripture meant. And how they apply it to each person’s life. And with that… Came a… It’s testing. Like… To walk together. And I… I’ve thought of that… I’ve pondered that a lot since then. What… What could we… In Amos 3 it says… Can we… Can two walk together unless they’re agreed? And I… I realize… Uh… There’s things that you can disagree on like… And then it… And it doesn’t matter that much. Like even me and my wife are different. But as a whole… Me and my wife are… Pulling two different ways. It would destroy our family. So it seems like… Me and my wife have to come into… Into oneness with… Pretty much everything. Everything that matters. In order to move forward. And when that’s not happening… In a church… It becomes very hard. And that’s… That’s really what started happening. There was… Some that… You know… One is… Like to have more of a… Worship style… Setting. So everybody had their turn… Uh… Moderating. We would get turns to… And the moderator could choose a person… To bring a message or… Lead out in songs or… Or whatever. And some of them would… You know… There was a few that would even bring… In… A projector and… And a screen… White screen to… To… To bring some of the… What they called worship songs. And I never… Never cared for that. I… For some reason… I just didn’t feel like… God’s with that. Maybe… And I… So… Some other people would say… Well that is worship. They’d get up out of their… Seats and… Kind of… You know… Raise their hands and… You know… I… I don’t know that I… Have… Much to say to that. It just… Didn’t seem right to me. So we had that… Those little subtle things. That was just a surface thing. There was a lot of… Underneath things going on that we had differences. Uh… That I won’t go into detail. But… Needless to say… With differences… And people not seeing eye to eye. And then… Uh… Next thing on his heels is… Being offended with… With each other. That started happening. Offenses started… Piling up, I think. I tried to… My… Best to stay clear of it. Because I realized… According to the scripture… You need to be… Free of those things. But as people got offended… And walked off… It… It was a… Eye opener to me. So… What causes people… What is it… What’s… What is happening that… People are walking off… Instead of coming in. It started shifting… And people started walking off… Instead of coming in. I think… Literally… I can look back… And I can say that the… Spirit of the Lord had… It was… It was up to the leader… To bring the Spirit of the Lord to the scene. If the leader had a clear heart… That there could still be a semblance of… Daily bread… And refreshing for everybody. But if the leader was… Walking in a fence… And tried to bring a scripture… You could just tell… That it all just fell to the ground. It wasn’t… It lost its meaning. It lost its… Its… Power. I… I always look at it this way… To explain it. When Jesus… Had his first sermon… He stood up and read out of Isaiah. And… He said… As was the custom… They read out of scripture. So apparently it was a… Customary thing. Possibly even Isaiah. Possibly even that very scripture as a reminder that… Jesus is coming. Uh… He’s coming to bind them. To heal the broken heart and on and on it goes. And… But what stands out to me was… The… The… People there… Were astounded. Because he… Taught with authority. He had… There was something behind it that was bigger than him. They were… See you from him. So they heard that scripture time and again. It was just words. But when Jesus spoke it… It brought… Value to the words if you want to say that. And I’ve… I’ve realized that if your heart’s… I’ve experienced it myself. If my heart’s not clear… I can… I can… I can preach something or say something or try to do something and I can feel it just… Either hit the ceiling or fall right off the edge of my tongue and fall to the ground. It just doesn’t have… It feels so empty. So I think that’s what started going on. We ended up having… Empty fellowship. Basically, it’s almost the same thing where I came from. It was very hard to… To bring a refreshment to the crowd when… I call it this way. People come in with a closed heart. They’re not allowing… Just to keep it soft. And that included me. I struggled with that through that season. As time went on, it just got… Harder. I mean, the amount of people showing up dwindled. Even some of what I call the outsiders that once praised our name kind of gave up coming. And I got to a point where I said, I don’t know. If this work is mine and I’m holding together, I don’t want any part of it. Alaska, we have been asked to go to Alaska to help with a project. And I said to my wife, if we come back and this is still going, we’re going to have to really have some really hard conversations with everybody that’s still remaining. And if it falls flat and I was the one holding together, it’s God’s will. I can’t hold this together anymore. So we left and came back two weeks later and it was dispersed. We tried later, I think, getting together with some people to just try to resolve some stuff, but it never, I don’t know, it never got very far. So there again, if two, I guess the lesson I learned is, or the lesson I want to take from that is, if two tend to walk together unless they agree. So if I take that into a fellowship or a church, you can build a box of rules where we can all agree on rules. The flow is all right. You can make it work when it’s about the rules. But if it starts coming about hard issues and what God wants to do, I think you have to have some distinct decisions that are agreeable with each other. At least, maybe the church down the road is a little different and God can use it, but as a small group fellowship or wherever you’re going to church, I think it’s expedient to at least agree on some solid things. We need to clear it or it becomes sort of a dead thing. So after that, it probably got to the darkest part of my life, I think, after Christ. I mean, I had lots of ups and downs in our marriage and I don’t have the time to share everything, but after we just quit going to church or gathering together, I was at the threshold of now what? I mean, where do I go? I had kind of held Charity Christian Fellowship up pretty high and I thought they were, but there was nothing like that around and do we move? It was just, and with that, a lot of the brothers and sisters drifted and went another direction, you know, losing some of our, well, what do you call it, core values or cultural values like what we call modest dress and a head covering. And it just created a whole new wrestle and probably the hardest part was for my wife. Some, you know, men don’t change as much. They kind of can blend with the culture a little more. It’s not such a jar as if it seems like when a lady changes her ways and her thought process, it really shakes things up. And it was very hard for my wife and we had to spend a season of wrestling through, are we really, what do we really believe? Is this really something worth dividing? I mean, every church around us that we fit in feels like they’re just gathering around a set of rules and this is the way we always did it versus the Baptist church down the road where my conclusion to my wife was always, well, I know there’s brothers out there in the Baptist church, but I’ll be lined up with maybe three or four different people that in the same church that might be carrying a gun or things that I hold dear like divorce and remarriage things like that, non-resistance. It doesn’t just seemingly stop with the letting go of some of our values from where we came from. So I was just not willing to let that go, but my wife had a really hard time with that, with watching some of the sisters that they were very close to suddenly become distant. Now, where were we? Who was our brother and sister? We didn’t seem to have anybody. And on top of that, it seemed like I didn’t know what to do. Even then, the Bible closed on me. It was like I couldn’t read. I quit reading my Bible. I couldn’t get anything out of it anyway. Nothing made sense anymore. So I just I wanted to actually give up. It would have been so easy just to give up. But something inside me didn’t let me. I kept listening to message after message on head coverings and what does the Bible really mean on who is my brother and what is non-resistance. I just really started digging in. Because what the Bible told me wasn’t that different from what I grew up with. I grew up with believing non-resistance and a lot of those things. But am I just reading them with colored lenses? What do I really believe? What is it saying? I can’t change the way I see things. I just couldn’t. But then I talked to my wife and she’s like, well, everybody else is prospering and we’re not getting anywhere. What have we got to say? And it was just really hard on me. It was really, really, really hard. But I think God was using even that. And with time, we went on a road trip and I had listened to some messages from, I think I shared this before, from followers of Wave Boston. There was a three-part series on a head covering. Then he has some and it was good. But for some reason, Matthew Milioni’s message, three-part message, he’s shared it at a Mennonite church somewhere. It’s online. It just spoke to me because he started out with putting the onus on the man. And I think that’s what caused my wife so much wrestle. Why is all that weight on a woman to keep men from lusting and all these things? And it bothered me because I’m like, yeah, that’s true. Why are the women so have to bear the brunt of being so different from the world around them? But anyway, on a road trip, me and my wife listened to those three messages and something with those messages spoke to my wife’s heart and it didn’t go away. It helped us over the edge again, back to what we really believe. We had to change our thought process. So, should I be winding this down pretty quick here? Yeah, we’re about 10 to 7. If you have a few more things you’d like to share, that would be fine. Yeah, so one of the other things I’d like to say is I was not caught up in this, but we were told by some people that we’re maybe not filled with the spirit if we’re you know, some of that loud music, you can’t dance, you’re stuck, you know, things that more, what would you call it, charismatic type. That was very hurtful. I would I have since come to grips with it, and I don’t believe that. I never really believed it. Nobody could tell me I didn’t have the Holy Spirit, but it really hurt my wife a lot more. She those words would knife. And if something like that happens, if somebody’s trying to tell you you don’t have the Holy Spirit, there’s one clear way to just ask God. He said he will give liberally for those that ask. He’s not a father that withholds. The only thing that will withhold you from the Holy Spirit is fear. If you’re walking in hypocrisy or sin, knowing sin, yes, the Holy Spirit will not be with you. But if you keep the pipeline clear, between you and your wife, you know, as best you can with other people around you, he will liberally give you the Holy Spirit. And the last thing I’d like to plead with anybody listening is the world is always, the world is designed to mold you into its image. There’s a lot of decisions you can make in your life that may not have instant ramifications or instant reaping. You reap what your sow, it saves. And sometimes, like an oak tree, a nut falls, and it takes a hundred years to be really something. So my plea would be to anybody that is trying to find your way in this world. God will lead you. And please, God’s not in a hurry. Don’t make any fast decisions. There’s no need for a swift decision. The only thing you should be swift of is repenting. After that, don’t be swift on anything. Be slow to anger, slow to speak, slow to dive off an edge and make a decision that you might regret later. Because a lot of decisions we make today don’t have instant consequences. In fact, I think that’s the best way that the devil will deceive people today is that slow death, slow molding you into the world’s image. I’m not just talking about exterior clothes. I believe the Bible is very clear. It’s a shame to be naked. How you clothe yourself, at the very least, you shouldn’t be naked. Find your way in that. Personally, I’m very comfortable with the culture we came from. I think it’s very modest, and I have no real desire to shed clothes. But I’m also not in a position to stand here and say every brother or sister in the world dresses like me and my wife. But I would say, at the very least, be very careful. I’m grateful with that because what you sow, you will reap. And I don’t know what I’m going to reap for some of the decisions I make. I’m praying that the decisions I make, I’ll reap life everlasting. And I pray that for everybody else. So yeah, Elam, go ahead. It’s yours. All right. Yeah, thanks so much, Jerry, for sharing. We really appreciate it. We look forward to hearing from some of the people in the audience here. So if you have any questions or comments that you would like to share with Jerry, feel free to do that. I really appreciate, brother, you walking through those trials and those testings and those temptations and being faithful through those trials. Being faithful through that. When we face the testings, that’s what really shows who we are. Some people get better, but some people, can we say, get better. They become more sanctified and more patient and more caring and have life to minister to others. And I think that’s something all of us desire. We desire to minister life to other people. You had talked about putting the axe to the root. The root matters. To have a root that we have in our life matters. Because it bears a certain kind of fruit. We can hack at the fruit. We can try to deal with the fruit that’s coming out. But unless the axe is put to the root, the matter doesn’t get taken care of. So thank you for sharing. I’m really, really blessed. So our connotations is to avoid the trials, avoid the difficulties. But I believe the true soldier of Christ faces those difficulties. Through them, not trying to avoid them. I think there’s a lie out there among God’s people where there’s this idea that if I’m really walking with Christ the way I need to walk, I’ll always have those butterflies in my stomach and I’ll always be happy, I’ll always be excited, I’ll always be jumping up and down. But that’s not true. The Lord chastens those whom he loves and those who patiently endure that chastening and walk faithfully. Through them, there’s a reward for those people. But if we can’t walk faithfully through temptation and trials, we may not be of his. So let’s embrace the trials as they come our way. Life is full of challenges and testing. So let’s embrace that and allow the Lord to mold and make us through these difficulties. Yeah, there could have been a lot more to share on trial. I just tried to cherry pick some of the highlights. So, yeah. Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, is there anyone in the audience that would like to say something? You should be able to unmute yourself. Yeah, good morning. I just want to say I really, really appreciate it. Everything you shared, Brother Jerry, it was refreshing. It was just good. You allowed yourself to be vulnerable and were real with the trials, temptations. The battles that you faced. And that’s where we can encourage each other in just going deep and being real. And my thoughts just went a lot of different ways as you were sharing. There’s a lot of parallels to my own Christian life. I think one of the things that we can take from this is it’s so easy to be distracted with where we came from or whatever changes we made or whatever. We seek Christ and find him and our sins are washed away and there’s joy. There’s a fresh walk with him and heaven is open and life is wonderful. That’s a really, really good experience. But we can so easily become sidetracked by thinking that I have this experience because I changed from that which I was to what I now am. Or, you know, the outward has changed. Get everybody else to do the same thing we did. Make some changes. They’ll experience the same things. Well, that’s right. We just really need to recognize where our hope is and where salvation lies. It’s in Christ Jesus. And anybody else that will really come to him will experience those things too. But maybe they won’t make the same changes or look the same way we will or whatever. Just really need to focus on the heart. And I appreciate how you brought that out this morning. And, you know, focusing on the heart doesn’t mean that we don’t also take serious the outward. That must go together. And we must be willing to fight the good fight of faith and do battle for the things of the Lord and, you know, be practical in the things of the Lord. So many things I could say. Need to add anything to what you said. You shared it well. And I just want to affirm that and would definitely recommend anybody to listen to this that maybe might be going through some of the same trials and temptations. Just be encouraged. Just keep going forward. It might seem a little discouraging when you’re new in the faith and everything’s great. And then you hear of those that have walked, you know, for so many years and they faced all these trials. And whatever. I do want to say that the seasoned walk with Christ is better than the, you know, the new and the fresh and all that is wonderful. But when you’ve walked with the Lord and fought those battles and become seasoned in him and understand his ways even better, it does get better. But it’s not without, it’s not without a cost. So, all right. God bless you. Thanks again for sharing. Oh, yeah. Thanks for that. I think many times how would it have been different if I would have put as much effort into clearing myself with my brothers and helping each other the way we do husband and wife. Like, we don’t just get up and get divorced when things go get tough. We work it through. So, I’ve been more serious about, you know, if I sense a conflict or a difference to try to address it in a fellowship. And not just run to another fellowship. So, yeah. Does anybody else have a question? Yeah, I just wanted to tell you I appreciated the message. I thought it was very good. I really appreciated how you persevered and continued seeking truth. It seems like so many people become converted. Walking with the Lord, there’s a lot of exciting things happening. But when the time gets, the way gets rough, they’re swayed by maybe the loudest voices. And I just really appreciate how you went back to studying the scripture. Yeah, looking to see what is really truth. And just continue speaking what is truth, not just listening to what the latest people are saying. I think that’s a really valuable. When we are facing trials, when we are liable to or prone to making snap decisions and listening to what most of the people are saying instead of going back to scripture and looking to see what is really right. So really appreciated that. God bless. Yeah, I honestly had a heart for John the Baptist at one point in that season. Looking back, it came to me when I was reading it one time when John the Baptist ended up in prison. He went through all kinds of things. He was told that the time is coming, that he’s going to be whatever. He was this special anointed child from the womb, and he prepared himself and fasted and lived in the wilderness. And then this little flash in the pan, if you call it that, he had some season of baptism. Was it even a year? And then he confronted Harold and he threw him in prison. And next thing you know, John the Baptist is doubting. It sends his disciples out. Is this really it? Or do we look for another? That really crossed my mind. I’m like, is this really it? Or do we look for another? Was I just smoking mirrors? Was this really from God? Or do I look for another? It’s not an easy place to be. I felt so alone there for a while. Awesome. Yeah. Very good. I appreciate everyone that shared. Is there someone else that would like to share us? I don’t know. If you can hear me talk, I might share. I’m not sure how to use it. We can hear you talk. Oh, okay. Thank you for joining us this morning. I tried pretty hard to get in, but I didn’t know what I did now to get in. Anyway, I want to thank you, Jerry. You’re pretty well walking. Through my life, I can see it. I can see this plainer and plainer how we see something and we walk out and then we get a pat on the back, a bunch of pats on the back. Then we realize, wow, we got a lot of fruit. Then we think that where we come from, they didn’t have no fruits. Then we crash when we’re not getting any pats. What’s happening, I think what’s happening, when we start getting pats on the back, we are thinking it’s us. It’s easy to do that. Really, we’re so human. We want to know where we’re walking at. I just want to thank you for taking your time here. Even though it seems like we’re not half done. Nice to meet you sometime. Well, you’re welcome to visit us in Alaska. I can pick you up at the Alaskan airport if you can find your way there. I’ll take care of you. There’s food and a place to lay your head up here. I’ve flown all over the world, but not that direction. Now you have a reason. Yeah. Yeah, well, thanks for that. I honestly can say that sometimes God blessed a message. I brought and it’s ironic how I’d have a thought and I’d decide that that’s my message for the morning and he would go and mess it up for me in the middle of my message. Well, to me, God’s using me. I mean, he used me. I even had to look at the day and thought, well, God used me and I’m actually proud about it, but I don’t know what to do. I mean, I can’t take my pride away. I don’t know. When God uses you, it brings a good feeling, but I guess the problem was I wasn’t able to give glory to God. And like you said, be aware when men speak well of you. So I’ve since been… Yeah, anyway, may God get all the glory. I’m very, almost afraid of that anymore, that feeling. Yeah, thanks for sharing, Furman. Maybe you could clear something up a little bit in my mind when you talk about getting a pat on the back. Could you explain a little bit more what you’re referring to when you say that? When people are… Well, it’s all right what the people said, but… We take it as I did it instead of God did it, if you know what I mean. It was probably good that they talked about the message, how good the message was or whatever. But it’s so easy to take it like I did it instead of actually it was the Lord, not me. Sure. That’s what I’m thinking, kind of. But it’s a difference in people. I’ve got a struggle with… All my life I had a little struggle with insecurity. And I think that goes right with insecurity. First thing you do, you jump the other way. I could… What you were saying about your wife, I think I almost line up more with fear. It’s so easy to jump with what people are saying because I feel insecure. Then if I feel insecure, the first thing I know, well, maybe I am wrong. I think and let… Relax and let the Holy Spirit talk instead of worrying what people think. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, thank you for that. We can hardly see you, Brother Furman. That’s the matter. There you go. There you go. We see your face. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, on… Coming back to what you’re sharing there, I could give an illustration a little bit about the… Even there… I look back in my days of not knowing Christ. I got my pat on the back through my work. If I did a very nice job on a staircase, I’d get… I’d get a lot of compliments. And that’s where you got your worth and your good feeling. And that gave you the energy to do the next job. Like, if everybody was plowed yonder after a job, you’d soon give up. But, you know, you did what you could. So, when I surrendered to Christ, it just switched to what I was doing for Christ. It didn’t matter much if people really blessed me in my work. It kind of… That kind of took back burner. It was more when someone, let’s say, a few number of people would compliment me on a message or even just having experience with Christ with a rank stranger. Yeah, I don’t know. God using you gives… It puffed me up there in the beginning. It’s… Yeah. It’s something you have… I have to keep a sharp eye on because it’s… It seems like that… I call it a need to be needed. If you are not needed, who are you? If you don’t have a spot in society, who are you? Are you still okay? What if you lose everything? Are you still okay? That’s a hard question. What do you know? Trials. Yeah, this is definitely a real blessing here this morning. I appreciate everyone that came on this morning. Yeah, we’re about quarter after seven now. Would you close this in prayer, Brother Jerry? Then we will consider ourselves dismissed. Yeah. Heavenly Father, we do thank you for your redeeming grace and not leaving us where we were at. You’ve not only opened our eyes, but you’ve led us. You’ve discipled us. You’ve showed us the street a narrow way. You’ve caused us to have grace one for another. But you also have promised that you will not quit the work you started in us. And we are only our own hindrance. We are our own worst enemy. May we learn from you and be yoked with you as we depart each one to his own way today that your spirit would go before us and we would be willing to sense when you bring the burden to bear or if we’re carrying a burden that’s not ours. And also be very sensitive to everything we see is of the world and it’s trying to subtly cause us to be like it. We want to feel comfortable and be like everybody around us and not cause offences, but sometimes we just following you causes offences. May we each brother here, everybody listening, may this bring glory to your name and may, if it’s words from you, may they never fall to the ground. And have value for eternity, not just today. So God, may you bless each one listening today and even in the future. Jesus Christ, name we pray. Amen. Alright, blessings to y’all. Yeah, well, God bless everybody. Thank you for joining. See you next time. And the invitation for Alaska is open to anybody, by the way. Just let me know. Elam has my phone number. I won’t give it out in the public, maybe, but if you want to see Alaska, now’s your time. I’ll take care of you.
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